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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |

Papa Django
Solitude Freelancer
101
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Posted - 2015.05.08 23:13:37 -
[1] - Quote
Yroc Jannseen wrote:CCP Masterplan wrote:
For a neutral structure (ie a newly-deployed IHub/TCU, or a command node for an outpost in Freeport mode) every alliance is its own team. Once one alliance gets the score up to 100% in their name, they win the contest for that structure.
I don't think this point has been widely circulated. My understanding after reading this is. There is no longer "launch for corporation" on IHUB/TCU's. You launch the structure and then entosis it? What is the time based on for new structures? And this eliminates 8 hour guard ops and TCU spam?
Let's say you are in a new alliance with no sov.
You are invading your first system with no station, you have destroyed the TCU and the iHub.
You launch your TCU and you launch your IHub. They are considered as neutral. So you have to activate an EL to take it according to CCP Masterplan :
Quote: For a neutral structure (ie a newly-deployed IHub/TCU, or a command node for an outpost in Freeport mode) every alliance is its own team. Once one alliance gets the score up to 100% in their name, they win the contest for that structure.
I don't think this will trigger a node capture event (i hope it doesn't). Once duration is reached, you hold it.
For the duration, remember indices are now related to iHub.
No iHub = no indice.
So taking a newly deployed TCU or iHub is a 10 minutes job.
But now there is the major drawback with the new Vulnerabilty Windows scaled on the Active defense multiplier from 18h to 3h.
It put the new alliance sov holders into a very very bad position to hold their sov.
An alliance taking his first system with this will have to defend 18h along because no defense multiplier to help and cannot put a capital bonus until several days.
This is really bad and need a fix. |

Papa Django
Solitude Freelancer
101
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Posted - 2015.05.08 23:34:36 -
[2] - Quote
About the new Vulnerabilty Windows scaled on the Active Defense Multiplier, tell me if i am good with this example :
An alliance have now to pick a 18h prime time windows. For exemple from 1h00 to 19h00 EVE TIME.
This alliance holds 2 systems, A & B. All the sov structures in theses 2 systems have the same prime time windows. The system A have an ADM = 4 The system B have an ADM = 2
The prime time for sov structures in A is from 7h45 to 12h15 EVE TIME (18h / 4 = 4h30) The prime time for sov structures in B is from 5h30 to 14h30 EVE TIME (18h / 2 = 9h00) |

Papa Django
Solitude Freelancer
101
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Posted - 2015.05.09 00:45:03 -
[3] - Quote
I am reading again the first dev blog and it comes a big question related to the systems index.
Are they all related to the iHub or only the strategic index ?
It is not obvious from that :
Quote: Just like in the current Sovereignty system, the Military Index is obtained by killing NPCs in the system and the Industrial Index is obtained by mining in the system. The Strategic Index, which is currently tied to the lifetime of the TCU structure, will be tied to the lifetime of the IHub instead.
Military and Industrial indexes should also be tied to the iHub because indexes should reflect alliance based occupancy. Not "everyone" occupancy.
At best, the Military and Industrial indexes should be tied to the iHub and the Strategic to the TCU. TCU is currently the worthless sov structure. |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
102
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Posted - 2015.05.11 09:04:33 -
[4] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: Simple answer there by Fozzie logic.. Your allies can indeed protect your sov by simply running an entosis link on it. Owners are afk, for whatever reason, sov comes under attack, ally comes runs entosis link to gain "effective military control" so enemies don't get to RF it. Result - Nothing RF'd, no timer, no capture the node mess to deal with.
You are wrong, nobody can defend your sov for you. To stop the RFing process there is only 2 ways : - destroying all ships with active EL on your structure - activating an EL with a pilot from the alliance owning the structure
If a blue activate an EL on your structure he will help the attacking forces.
Sgt Ocker wrote: Better to have your structures "attacked" by friendly forces than enemies who may want to take it from you. (builtin safety for existing power bloks)
There is no. You miss the point here. |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
103
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Posted - 2015.05.12 09:02:35 -
[5] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: There are still many unanswered questions regarding how entosis links will work, I prefer to believe what CCP Masterplan wrote out, as it fits with the blog description.
Yes we need more answer from the dev but you are completly wrong on that thing.
Sgt Ocker wrote: An attacker must 1st remove any progress made by a previous attacker ( a defender is not an "attacker" so that can only mean 1 thing). That statement ONLY makes sense if only 1 entosis can make progress at a time, which according to the blog is how the mechanic works.
No. No. No.
This is only the case when the structure is already in RF, in the event named "maint event" in the first devblog or a fresh deployed structure or a freeport battle. In thase case it is a free for all. So an alliance can build a buffer for another.
But in the RFing process you cannot because there is only 2 sides, the defending alliance and the rest of New Eden alliances.
Sgt Ocker wrote: A mechanic like this, that is designed to favour large groups, will be used by large groups to ensure no-one becomes a threat. Why else do you think none of the bloks are whining in the forums - You don't complain about something that gives you a major advantage over others. They know Fozzie-Sov is all in their favour.
Did you seriously miss the trollceptor CFC & N3 move in the first devblog comments ?
Come on ... |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
107
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Posted - 2015.05.12 14:23:43 -
[6] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:That is a shame.. because the whole concept favours the well established dominating groups. Blobs have ruled sov for years and will continue to do so. So, nothing changes except it will be easier for large groups to stomp anyone they decide they don't want around.
The crucial point is, are the industrial and millitary indices related to the iHub ? So if the iHub is destroyed theses indices go back to zero.
If it is the case, a new alliance taking a new sov will start with a 18h vulnerability windows. It is a lot too much and give a big edge for the established alliances.
If a dev can confirm that it would be nice.
My POV is, the 3 indices should be related to the iHub. So when an iHub is destroyed, the new holding alliance should rebuild everything.
But, a mecanism is missing to help the newcomers to start their territory war. 18h prime time window when starting is insane if the goal is to bring new alliances in nullsec. |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
108
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Posted - 2015.05.12 21:18:56 -
[7] - Quote
Klyith wrote:Papa Django wrote:But, a mecanism is missing to help the newcomers to start their territory war. 18h prime time window when starting is insane if the goal is to bring new alliances in nullsec. The capital designation +2 handles that pretty well, if you can hold it for a couple days to take effect. Also index 1/1 is really easy to get, even if you're being pressured. If you can get those two you're down to 4 hours which is very reasonable. The 18h window on a freshly taken system is long, but vulnerability isn't the same as loss. First, the time that the structure exits reinforced is random within the window. So if you're fighting against an opponent in a different time zone who zaps your new stuff while you're offline, there's just as much chance for the main timer to be in your prime as theirs.
No. It has been said that the capital bonus need a few days to apply to avoid spamming it at each RF attempt.
Klyith wrote: Second, even if your opponent takes it back from you, they get the same 18h window you just dealt with. So take it back! The action of a fozziesov war is likely to be much more dynamic, with the contested systems flipping back and forth a few times until one side cries uncle. Attack > defense opens doors, it doesn't close them.
Fozziesov is knocking down the barriers to nullsec. You don't need capships and supers, you don't need 1000 guys, you don't even need anchoring 5 for POS spam. All you need is entosis links and perseverance. If overwhelming force was the key to dominion sov, endurance is the key to fozziesov.
Yes you are right but you miss the purpose of the whole thing : Getting newcommers in nullsec.
This prime time window design help too much the current sov holders.
Scaling the prime time window with occupancy is a good idea but it should be also scaled with the alliance size. The bigger you are the harder to defend your vast territories it should be.
It is exactly the same strategic concept for force projection. Allowing force projection from a galaxy corner to the opposite is dumb. It has been nerfed. The same thing should happens to empire size.
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Papa Django
Lords of Fail
108
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Posted - 2015.05.13 00:53:20 -
[8] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: The combined barriers, individually may possibly be overcome (with persistence and endurance), add them together so they all need to be tackled at once, as the proposal suggests - sov entry requirements are too high. No smaller group would be able to defend a system for 18 hrs AND build up defensive indexes at the same time. It is unrealistic to expect any smaller group of players to be online for 18 hours a day. Random timers anywhere in an 18 hour window = Forcing players to alarm clock, defend sov OR go to work or school, spend time with family etc. (and here I was thinking that was something CCP was trying to get away from, at least that is what the stated goals say)
Sorry boss, I'm taking a few days off to defend my space pixels in a game that is forcing me to choose between, playing the game or having a life. We already have maternity and paternity leave, why not sov defense leave.
Yes.
Indexes impact on prime time windows have 2 effects : 1- giving advantage to allready entrenched sov holders 2- forcing sovholders to effectively use their spaces
The 2- point is mandatory.
The 1- should be balanced. The best way is to scale the prime time window on the alliance size regarding to the current number of sov owned.
For example : Prime time window hours = 18 / ( Activity Defense Multiplier - ( insert here a formula with alliance pilot number and sov structure number to reduce the ADM if there is too many sov structure and a boost to ADM with a few structures ) ).
This could help a lot to get more space for newcommers and to compensate the 1-.
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Papa Django
Lords of Fail
108
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Posted - 2015.05.13 08:48:14 -
[9] - Quote
Klyith wrote: Sez who?
The purpose of the whole thing is not "to get newcommers". The purpose is to design a sov system around these principles / goals: * to make sov systems accessible to the widest range of players possible * to move away from large HP grinds as the mechanic to contest sov * to make sov strength reflect active use of space as proposed in the original "occupancy"
Don't be a ****.
Every update is focused on the goal to hold the current customer base and grab new.
The purpose of the whole thing is to downgrade requirements to hold sov, and on a large purpose, downgrade the current blocs sizes and influence over the map.
You can add to that breaking the dependency link between HS and NS.
The whole thing started last summer, Crius was designed with the current sov changes in mind.
Klyith wrote: The idea is to design a system that's a fair & open sandbox, not one that's pushing some desired end-state for the game. Designing for a specific result is terrible because you can't predict all the implications and unintended consequences -- that's how we got dominion. Fozziesov removes barriers based on SP and ship use (you don't require caps to grind structures) and lowers the incentive to hold empty or rental space (which were the forces that pushed smaller players out of null under dominion).
Agree 100% with that.
Klyith wrote: The intelligent prediction is that a fair & open system designed around the above 3 points will allow more players in sov null and especially smaller entities than the current blocs. That doesn't mean that newcommers get some sort of charity space. Everyone that wants a piece has to find space that they can attack, take, and hold.
Giving people assets protection when they are at work, with their family or sleeping is not charity. You are 100% wrong on this. There is no reason well established alliances get an unfair advantage against newcommers on this. Everyone need to rest and to have a life outside the game.
The prime time mecanism is designed for that.
It should only penalize people who don't care about their space.
Currently the designe is bad because it penalize also newcommers with no reason at all.
CCP a fix on this is mandatory. |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
108
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 15:35:59 -
[10] - Quote
Klyith wrote: And what determines who "cares" about their space? If Pandemic Legion comes to Brave's new space in Fountain and takes it with overwhelming force despite them having all 5s indexes, can PL check a box for yes we care about this space and get a 1 week immunity timer?
The mechanic for caring about space is indexes. Plenty of alliances in nullsec right now will have terrible defensive windows on the day fozziesov begins, they'll be in just as bad a situation as guys who just moved in.
Yes and it is good, they don't use their space, they don't deserve to hold it anymore.
Klyith wrote: Here's how you should be thinking about it: sov is going be a fuzzy system where getting your name on the map or control of a station is just the beginning.
And an alliance that is one of your newcommers shouldn't have assets to lose until they have secure control of a system, ie reasonable indexes to keep your vulnerability window to your primetime. Your replacement combat ships should be in the nearest NPC station or a POS SMA. Freighters full of stuff should not be arriving on day 1 that you own a station.
I still don't see why newcommers should takes holidays or risk divorce to plant a flag in nullsec and the old sovholders should not. |
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Papa Django
Lords of Fail
110
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Posted - 2015.05.19 08:33:35 -
[11] - Quote
Could we have an answer from a dev about newcommers issue ?
Is this problem identified by your team and are you looking at it ?
Do you think there is no issue at all ?
What is your point on that ?
Thanks. |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
111
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Posted - 2015.05.20 08:16:18 -
[12] - Quote
Daily bump, could we have a answer for this critical issue ? |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
111
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Posted - 2015.05.21 08:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Daily bump to get an anwser from CCP.
The issue is :
With the current design, a new ally taking fresh sov will have to defend it 18h long for several days / weeks.
This is completly crazy and give a big advantage to already implanted sov holders.
As i said, the prime time windows exist to protect our real life. And the Occupancy based index exist to represents the real occupancy of space and to avoid rental empire. You have to use the space you hold to keep it.
It is not supposed to be mecanisms to penalize newcommers.
Currently you cannot hold freshly captured systems without puting your marriage or your job into the balance.
This is a huge issue in the current design and need at least some comments from CCP dev. |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
112
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Posted - 2015.05.25 18:28:57 -
[14] - Quote
@CCP Bump, could we have a answer for this critical issue ? |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
115
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Posted - 2015.05.28 22:06:57 -
[15] - Quote
Station services are not protected by the prime time window. Post FozzieSov you will be able to deactivate service station 24/24.
But Dave517 is right when he says that indexes must reflect active space control and not passive control (PI, jobs, ...) |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
115
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Posted - 2015.05.29 12:07:09 -
[16] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: Papa - That is all well and good for the established groups who will continue to dominate post Fozziesov due to the ease with which current holdings can be defended. Where though does that leave someone new entering the sov game who does not have the benefit of years to build up indexes? The primary defensive index, Strategic, is a time based attribute, the other 2 require major dedicated activity to increase. How does a new alliance that has 18 hour vulnerability manage to build indexes, while fighting to hold their new sov? Or do you believe the existing groups are just going to sit back and watch as new alliances get established before attacking?
The issue is not that current sovholders can defend easier, it is that new sovholder have to defend harder.
I have mailed all the CSM on that issue. They say that i was not the first to mail them about that issue, they will push that issue to CCP at the next CSM summit ... in september 
I think too that the current design miss the initial goal, the AU TZ fix is really bad, it creates more issue then it fixes.
Some others points are bad, the changes on PTW micronageable is bad, really really bad, it help too much big groups.
Well, we'll see ... |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
115
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Posted - 2015.06.01 08:46:58 -
[17] - Quote
davet517 wrote: Did you think that wasn't the point? Yes, new groups will get stomped. Old groups will stroke each other about all the tears they created by stomping said groups. That is what's going to happen, because that's what keeps the most people logging in. The vast majority log in to participate in the mutual stroking. They want to feel powerful, not victimized.
There isn't anything CCP can do about that. There isn't anything that CCP wants to do about that.
They can stop help big groups and help the new one, ore maybe the small one, or maybe simply put enough big groups limitations to make big group existence harder mecanically.
CCP can do a lot on this.
davet517 wrote: Significant changes to fozziesov have already been made because of the level of whining coming from the major power blocs about its potential to make their members feel victimized. It's been watered down for that reason. When people feel victimized, instead of powerful, they stop playing.
That is the problem. CPP have removed the best changes that would made the big blocks live harder.
The ability to put custom prime time on each structure is pure heresy in regards to the FozzieSov spirit. The only way to defeat a big empire is to attack with small forces on multiples points. This is nearly impossible now.
They are making the same mistake they have made with force projection early. If they want Eve to be vast again, they absolutly have to burn down to the ground the big coalition with game mecanics.
davet517 wrote: Which players? The vast majority of null players belong to enormous power blocs because they want to be the man, not the underdog trying to stick it to the man. They want to play the alliance flunky in the funny hat, or the imperial storm trooper, not Malcolm Reynolds, or Han Solo. They're followers. Joiners. Get it? CCP is in business to make money. CCP is going to give them what they want.
As long as they join up in the thousands to get the ego stroke that comes with being the man, CCP is going to cater to that. The change that you want is a change in player mentality, not game mechanics.
The most important players are the officers and the CEO. Not the mass. The former create the content for the masses. If you have a vast Eve with a lot of opportunities you will have more players. if the step is too high for nullsec sov access, this is less opportunities and so less players.
Your logic is broken from the begining to the end of your post bro ... |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
115
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Posted - 2015.06.01 12:47:17 -
[18] - Quote
Same as your previous post, you have a failed logic.
Players apply to big groups because they have to in order to survive en nullsec.
Theses groups have led to the most static period in the Eve history. So sub have started to schrink.
The initial goal for CCP is to expand the universe size. Not by adding new systems, but to make the existing used and logistic harder.
The goal is to balkanize nullsec and to relocalize most of the nullsec needs in nullsec itself.
But they forgot that the universe have a defined size, and if they want a true balkanization, it is mandatory to avoid coalitions and big alliances.
With good groups sizes, the bigger should not be able to control more then a region. It is purely a game mechanic issue.
It is the best way to bring new players to the game. Creating opportunities.
If they are too kind with big groups, they will fail in nullsec balkanization, and after the new feature effect on fozziesov they will start loosing sub again.
Allowing newcommers in nullsec to colonize territory is mandatory for the game health and regeneration. |

Papa Django
Lords of Fail
115
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Posted - 2015.06.01 15:23:33 -
[19] - Quote
davet517 wrote: What evidence do you have that necessity alone drives people to join these groups? Do you really think that the only thing holding "The Imperium" as an example, together is necessity? I think you're completely discounting identity politics, and player mentality. If most Eve players were "anti-establishment" on principle, these groups could not attract thousands, or in the case of Imperium, tens of thousands of members. Most eve players are not, though. They want to feel powerful, and being associated with one of the big blocs gives them that. That, and safety.
That's what they want. They want to be able to log on and feel powerful because they have the weight of a big bloc's numbers and wealth behind them. CCP will screw with that at their own peril, and they know it.
What evidence do ou have that people go to big groups for ego ?
I have discussed with a lot of new players (or old), when they go to a big group it is for security not for the power feeling.
It is even more a fact with corporations. They go to an existing bloc for security not for the glory.
davet517 wrote: When the game was young, nobody was that powerful. Everyone fought tooth and nail for the little they could build, and going broke if you over-reached and failed, and finding yourself back in high-sec grinding missions again was expected. The game isn't young like that anymore. A more or less permanent upper-class has evolved that attracts numbers to it. Short of a server wipe that puts everyone back on a level playing field, or, mechanics that make it a lot easier to destroy accumulated wealth, it's going to stay that way. A change radical enough to disrupt that is more risk than CCP is willing to take on board, most likely. While it could re-energize the game and attract more subscriptions, it could also lose them more subscriptions than they can afford to lose.
I don't say we need to wipe out the CFC assets. I say we need smaller entities. |
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